SS build woes continue

[Peter]

Have you thougt of doing a Skoda estelle rear end where the rear panel bolts onto a flange so it can be removed?

I like the 'Italian' headlights. they actualy work better on the SS than the Nova due to the Nova's wing angle.

For the engine cover I have a Vauxhall cavalier boot catch and solinoid with a cord back up reachable from under the valance and as you may know a pair of 'Aero catches' on the bonnet, seen too many wrecked screens and bonnets to go for front catch or a single latch.

[soldonkits]

Hi Peter,

Yes, I thought about a detatchable rear end, especially as the car's rear had been chopped (butchered) off when I got it. I decided on a solid reconstruction to improve rigidity in what appears to be a large overhang from the last chassis fixing.

I'm currently doing the last fix to the release cables front and rear. I had though about solenoids but wiring is still a black-art to me so the less the car has the better.

I've started on the dashboard layout after combining the lower half of a Mk 2 dashboard with the top off the original Mk 1. Then I added a top lip to match the lower rolled edge. As for the instruments, my original thoughts of digital and modern were shelved in preference for a retro look with white faced dials and a matching Beetle speedo. I'll have a nervous breakdown wiring it as it is.

More to follow and all thoughts welcome.

[soldonkits]

Please allow me an 'OMG'. The final fitting of the bonnet release catch works like a dream... unusually for me.

Photos to follow... honestly.

Details available for any other masochists who want to follow suit. The cables and attachment method appear to be suitable for many catch types including door handles their catches.

[Peter]

On the question of rear end regidity it is important to have all the brackets fitted. many bulds skip that bit so the whole rear end is 'hanging' from the rear of the chassis. there 'should' be brackests from the rear to the rear bulkhead and I also have braces from the horn to the top of the inner wing /rear wing joint- which makes the rear end very strong.




Not very pretty but does the job, you will find there is a bolt hole there ready so just a right angle of sorts needed on the bar and a 6" bit of angle at the top to sit in the angle of the wing/mudguard. The bottom is a M10mm bolt and nut into the tube for adjustment.

[chrisbailey]

If you still have the body off, id probably glass in the reinforcement bars directly into the body.

When i lifted my body off, I removed and dumped the angle iron bars that were being used for support.
My reasoning was they were actually causing damage to the body, introducing spider cracks and in some places rubbing through the body shell.

There was a real horror when i removed the forklift type support for the front tub. The steel was about an inch thick and was bolted in by the frame head bolts. Somebody had extended the length of the frame head bolts by about an inch by cutting and welding!
The welding wasnt even any good.
Honestly cant believe that was done and the car driven around for years!.

[Peter]

I don't have any support for the front tub at all and never been a problem. I have thougt that when I get around to the 'extras', like when everything else is done to be roadworthy, I would make an extended support from the frame head straight to the front right to a tow point where I can screw in a tow ring and a diagonal brace from the left across the to right which would also support the nose. I have had the boot filled with a very heavy Snap-On tool chest and no problems. ,

[austin20]

Body braces. My eagle looks to have extra bracing put onto the front and rear that looks like a redesign mod. On the front end braces go forward onto the inner wings from modified exhaust clamps that fix around the lower beam of the front suspension. The rear does not have welded brackets anywhere but simply fixes a steel triangle to the shock absorber/damper top fixing bolt and the other ends to the inner wings. A working photo upload would have been easier to see, but I'm a dinosaur with technology and can't get it to work.

[soldonkits]

This all screams of 'minimal effort' by the Eagle company and 'megga imaginary input' from any unlucky recipient of a shell.

I'll probably go with a combo of both your suggestions. I had wondered if a Beetle tow-frame could be mounted inside the front 'boot', anchored to the torsion bar tubes as originally intended for towing the Beetle. It could double as a tow point for the Eagle (suitably adapted) and as an internal framework to support the front tub. Anyone daft enough to try it yet?

Works continues at a pace to complete this project. Unfortunately it's at a snail's pace. Still have the body off the chassis, still hoping to fit rear disc kit to upgrade from drums. Anyone fitted a rear anti-roll bar or sway bar as Empi call theirs? I have swing axles and wondered if there was any way to fit the central support bushes without drilling the horns to thread the square u bolts through.

Ok moving on, I need to start a new thread needed about carbs...

[Peter]

You don't really need rear sway bar but there is a VW set up that mounts on the horns as standard.

Lotus and myself go on the tight front and loose rear system so I have a heavy duty front anti roll bar, stiffer dampers and camber shims on sway-a-ways, at the front and stiffer rear with spacers on the arms but the idea is to keep the front planted and let the rear look after itself. "Kaffer bars" are a better way to spend the cash at the rear.

[soldonkits]

Well, it's been a while....

Oil cooler, thermostat and filter now tucked neatly in the strengthened box behind the nearside rear wheel. Electric fan to be wired-in but also fitted and designed to draw air from the Boxter side air intakes.

I've been working on the engine bay's surrounding lip. Originally just a downward facing edge that directed water neatly onto the engine electrics, it now has a top edge too. This stands up around 1", in old money, to prevent rain from washing out the engine... at least it did untill I measured the width of the twin solex carbs currently on the engine waiting to go into the gap. The filter cans are about 2" per side wider than the gap, assuming the come up above the lip. As the chassis is yet to be fitted, I have no idea where they will sit, but the gap needed widening, I guess, so my original hard work back when I had a simple single carb lump to fit, needs to be introduced to my angle grinder.

Now comes the big questions I need help with, ones my web searching couldn't answer.

1. Where do the air clear cans sit relative to the engine bay surround ie height-wise and 2. can the Eagle body be fitted over the rolling chassis and engine with the carbs in place (clearly not with the filters fitted).

From what I can see the manifolds themselves are wider that the engine bay's lower opening ie the bottom edges of the inner wheel arches.

My long term plan is to eventually upgrade the solex for a pair of empi 40 HPMX Ultra carbs that are a copy of Webers but said to be slightly better (time will tell) I wondered if anyone out there had these fitted and what the width of the HPMX set-up will be so that I have something to look forward to worrying about.

I look forward to any views that might move this snail-paced project forward.

[Peter]

Don't worry, the inlet manifolds and carbs fit within the inner rear wings. You will need to route the opening around the air filters though by about 1 1/2" old money and make a new lip as I have, If I can do it so can anyone.

Mine is a pretty standard twin cab' set up apart from the cable operated system.

[soldonkits]

Hi Peter, (or anyone else that can help).

After some of my patented late night worrying in which I studied the photo of your engine bay at length, I'm afraid I have some more concerns that I hope you can help with.

It's clear to see that you have pared the side lips back to the buttresses leaving only a small water channel above and around the filter can sides. You also appear to have cut the transverse lip, next to the fan housing, right back to the firewall, The problem is that as everything is so neat I can't tell for sure if this was a mod. Also, if it was cut away by the shroud, was it done to clear the filters and carbs or to clear the throttle linkage that appears to run around the front of the shroud, together with the stainless braided pipes and a box I can see but don't recognise.

OK basically the question is do I also need to enlarge the engine bay opening front to rear i.e. in front of the fan shroud, as well as width ways. I was just about to make the changes permanent when I realised I may need to do more cutting.

I hope you can clear up this last issue.

[Peter]

Nope. The only "mod" was around the filters. I haven't cut the front away at all, just inserted the oil cooler there, (in hindsight it would have been better in the left side behind the wheel with the oil filter), it might be a later Mk3 shape?

The firewall sits across the engine/gearbox joint. The firewall itself is a custom beetle one trimmed to fit.

The throttle linkage in front of the shroud has long gone in favour of an all cable and pulley arrangement. $350 in USA but I made it for 30 pounds.




All the tubes.


The HT cables were also run internally at this time, before I 'invented' the alloy cross tube for them.

The water channel is more than enough to cope with even the monsoon rain we get here.

The box is a Scat breather box, slightly modified to have a return to the oil filler tube. There is a breather in each valve cover. The rest are fuel lines.

Just leave about 1/2" around the filters and you will be OK.

[soldonkits]

Hi Peter,

Thanks for the additional info.

I've made a start on widening the engine bay opening, basically taking it as near to the rear butresses as I could while still leaving a channel for the rain. While I had the angle grinder out I also took a small ammount off the lateral edge ... I whish I could decide if the fire wall was behind the fan shroud or in front of it. When you are looking a the engine it's behind but technically in front... so hard to be clear when talking about it. I now have some tricky glassing to put the chganges right but at least the cutting is over.

I wondered if a pair of custom air boxes might be the answer to the lack of elbow room in the bay. Has anyone made any to suit twin carbs? At the moment, mine are Solex H40/44EIS maybe a bit more creative glassing is needed? Does anyone know if airbox intakes would reduce the power of the engine?

[Peter]

If correctly formed air boxes are not a restriction and in fact can produce increases in power due to change from low to hi pressure. all very technical and one of the areas I blanked out on at the Kawasaki 750 Turbo course I attended.
Using DellOrto's would have been easy as the Alfa intakes are perfect to face inwards to a single air box and a filter But Solex/Kadron not so easy. There should be plenty of room for Solex or Kaldron etc as the Dell's are quite large and there is about 20mm clear each side. .

[soldonkits]

OK... More measurements taken and latest advice onboard...

Maximum width of carb air filters (in old money)        33 1/2"
Maximum width of inlet manifolds                             33"
Opening between inner faces of wheel arches             30 1/2"
Opening between inner faces of upper engine bay lip  31"

Solution, after cutting the top opening to clear the filter cans, when in situ, I need to cut the wheel arches too. The vertical angle of the inner arches is 25 degrees into the bay at the lower edges, I need to make them vertical to drop the body over the inlet manifolds, even after first removing the filter cans.

Thank G for angle grinders!

After some more cutting, glassing and extra large economy box of expletives, I now have 34" to 35" clearance through the engine bay, at least at the point at which I expect the carbs and manifolds to sit... Next job, get the chassis complete, rolling and ready to mount the body. What could possibly go wrong!?

[Peter]

Nov 24, 2021 13:03:11 GMT soldonkits said:

OK... More measurements taken and latest advice onboard...

Maximum width of carb air filters (in old money)        33 1/2"
Maximum width of inlet manifolds                             33"
Opening between inner faces of wheel arches             30 1/2"
Opening between inner faces of upper engine bay lip  31"

Solution, after cutting the top opening to clear the filter cans, when in situ, I need to cut the wheel arches too. The vertical angle of the inner arches is 25 degrees into the bay at the lower edges, I need to make them vertical to drop the body over the inlet manifolds, even after first removing the filter cans.

Thank G for angle grinders!

After some more cutting, glassing and extra large economy box of expletives, I now have 34" to 35" clearance through the engine bay, at least at the point at which I expect the carbs and manifolds to sit... Next job, get the chassis complete, rolling and ready to mount the body. What could possibly go wrong!?

Just about everything but plough on regardless, seems the engine bay on your car is narrow compared to mine, is it an earlier model?

One trick I caught on from another forum, when such cut outs are made is to make half boxes from fibre glass by cutting an old 5 litre container (washer fluid, coolant etc) and laying up inside it. I am making one to go over the cylinders that poke through the bulkhead and thinking of from rear wing vents to inner wing as filter intakes, chop the container about until it fits and them glass up.

[chrisbailey]

There was a guy on the nova forum, he lived down the road from my parents.
He completely remodeled his novas body by hand using plant pots and plastic containers as fibreglass moulds.
It was really impressive.

[Peter]

Wonder what happened to that one?

[chrisbailey]

He sold it to another guy on the forum.
The guy who did it got another project car, a beetle he lowered the roof on, exposed wheels and a chevy v8 in the back.
He had many projects over the years, some really cool ones that got featured in magazines.

[Peter]

It is amazing how people take a 10K historic car and turn it into 2K of parts piece of junk.

[soldonkits]

Thanks for the suggestions Peter.

I use anything I have to hand regularly to create moulds but with the widening of the engine bay, I decided to cut the lower half of the inner arches out then glass them back into place vertically. It looks ok but would have been better if done as part of the original design. The carbs should now have more breathing space and the manifolds, I hope, will miss the wheel wells.

As to how early my car is I would say going by the asymmetric nature of the body sections, the undersized engine bay and other shortfalls in othe areas of design, I'd say it was their practice piece or prototype before they went into production. I have this mental picture of two guys throwing it together after coming up with the idea over a pint at the local. Seriously though, I would love to know the year it was made and where it came in the production run but it came without an id plate of any kind. It's certainly an early MK1. Anyone know when the first shell was sold? It's hard to trace the life of this car but I am guessing early 80's

[Peter]

The SS MkI kicked off the Eagle brand in 1981 by Dutton and Breeze and was a copy of the Cimbria (less a couple of styling changes) from the States which started in 1971 along with the Stirling which came from the MkI Nova by Richard Oaks. 1986 Eagle cars were sold to his cousin Roy Budd.

[soldonkits]

With Christmas upon me I felt the need to do something car related so here's an update for anyone still following this build.
No photos yet as the car is not actually with me but with local restorers who are re-spraying it for me. They quoted about 2 months for the job, bearing in mind the likelihood of build quality issues it seemed reasonable. The were sort of right. There was NO build quality in the parts of the shell that were original. Happily, the sections I repaired or replaced were more reliable, unlike the hurriedly built 80's shell which threw up thousands of air bubbles trapped in the layers of gelcoat. These caused untold problems when they tried to spray it. Some sections have required stripping and re-spraying several times.
Two months have now become 10 months and the bill for the extra work doesn't bear thinking about. I was hoping I would have it back for Christmas but New Year looks like being more realistic.
I hope to include some photos of the finished job... if it is ever finished, that is. The only positive thing I can say at this time is that the mods and alterations I made to the car appear to blend in now it has at least got some paint on it.

More to follow if anyone is interested and my sanity holds.

[chrisbailey]

Merry Christmas.
Always enjoy reading your build updates.
Look forwards to seeing some photos!
What are your plans for it once it's complete? Will it be touring some shows, will we see it about on the road?

[soldonkits]

I'm glad you (someone) asked. If the re-sprayers ever hand the car back and it's driveable, I hope to take it to as many shows as it will get there and back from; I need to share my pain!? The 6 year build is definitely sending me towards therapy and counselling.

I know it's a bit late to be asking this but is there a definitive way to tell what 'Mk' the VW versions are and when they were likely to have been built? Mine has the solid, longer bonnet and the doors originally had the large moulded catch boss on the underside with the sill flat. I think it was first registered in '84 but that's all I know about its origins. Because of this, and the work done on it, I'll try passing it off as a Mk5 if I can't tie it down. My best guess is Mk1 or 3 and the year of manufacture was around the time they couldn't lay fibreglass to save their lives... whenever that was.

I'll post photos when the paint is complete, here I'm assuming it will be complete some time.

All info gratefully received.

[soldonkits]

OK I'm finding the need to share again.

The first test- drive after a 10-month wait was a disaster. Just a short drive around the industrial estate, I though, looking out for potholes and bumps.

200 yards later I was making a turn into a side road with the aim of returning to the garage to complain about the heavy steering. (That was the plan). The steering was so heavy that I didn’t make the turn and beached on a kerb instead. It doesn’t matter how, many times you hear that grinding/crunching sound when fiberglass meets concrete, it’ never good.

Eventually I limped back to the garage to assess the damage. More filling, repairing and re-spraying is needed.

More importantly, what the hell is happening with the steering!

Where I need some urgent advice is with the impossibly heavy steering… this can’t be normal, even for an Eagle… can it? Every part of the steering is either new or refurbished but still I can barely move the steering wheel. The rubber donut has been replaced with a smooth operating UJ and the box is a new TRV unit. I know kit cars are basic but I thought it would at least steer.

Any ideas guys?

[Peter]

The steering on a V W is heavy, add to that a smaller steering wheel and changed geometry and bigger tyres you will thing you are driving a tank.

One way is to fit camber shims between bottom beam and frame head, bump steer bushes if you have lowered the suspension to reverse the track-rod ends.

Plan A; Power steering in the form of Corsa electric column or similar. or go all in with hydraulic rack and electric pump from Mercedes A-class or Porshe

Plan B; change to rack and pinion, I had no problems with a combination of all three, nice and light even with 225/70R15 front tyres.

[soldonkits]

Hi Peter,

Good to hear from you.

As far as my set-up is concerned, it’s as near to original Beetle as possible. The front tyres are modest, only 5.5” wide and standard diameter, the suspension is not lowered or narrowed, the steering wheel is large, as large as it could be without amputating my lower legs, 14” I think and all components new if a little ‘barn find’ after a 6-year build.

I thought about power steering but not sure which one would be the easiest. I had also hoped to keep it as Beetle-like as possible while still being able to turn corners.

It’s no exaggeration to say that at the moment, it’s d**ned near impossible to turn the wheel, requiring as it does, both hands on the same side tugging downwards to get it to move. Not ideal.

I really need a simple fix to this unknown problem.

As a comparison, it feels like the’ assist’ has packed up in a power steering, large car. I can’t see how anyone can drive a beetle-based Eagle if they are all like this.

Can anyone with a standard steering set-up share their experience with it.

[Mark]

I originally had Beetle front suspension on my Eagle and was also lowered and didn't find the steering to be that heavy and certainly not like driving a tank.

Something dose not sound right to me.

I believe the castor on beetles is minimal (possibly 3 degrees) and if I remember rightly as its been a long time, even less if you lower the suspension due to it been a trailing arm suspension, so this should not be a problem.

I would suggest jacking the front up and checking the steering unloaded to see it all moves freely which it should, and while you are doing that make note of how many turns from lock to lock.

There should also be a small amount of play in the steering box as it is worm and roller type, again not a problem.

To put things into perspective my current suspension due to it having a quick turn rack is heavier than what my car was with the Beetle suspension but is not a problem. Although to be fair power steering would be nice at low speed but not essential.

However having said all that I did comment in a past post that going from driving a modern car to an older one can feel like you have gone all weak and feeble in the arms department.