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Post by chameleon on May 14, 2020 10:59:49 GMT
When I started on this web page and I said the I was going to drop a cossy into it, Peter quite wisely said it's not as simple as that. He was right and wrong at the same time. Yesterday I put my 40+ year dream onto my moving jig, flipped it over and I bet my face was a picture. Smoke and mirrors was the first thing that went through my head. Don't get me wrong, as they seem to say on TV this is not my first rodeo, in my time I have built lo-costs from scratch, repaired bent GBS Zero's, Robin Hood 2b's and a Cobra via the sumo frame but all had reasonable detailing and if nothing else good plans. Anyone who has built a SS from scratch has my total and sincerest respect and likewise I now know why there are so few on the road. The shell was designed by the gods and was always my reason for love, turn it over and its a whole with a metal box section frame and yes my Cossy will fit in it but so would a bus engine. This build was always going to be my last, and never short of thinking out of the box I am breaking with conventional donner car strategy and I have a cunning plan to use a lo-cost frame a plasma cutter and a mig. Should be a bit of challenging fun, or a massive WHOP's head in hands time.
Regards
Steve (Ellesmere Port)
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Post by chrisbailey on May 14, 2020 11:53:13 GMT
The eagle SS was never renowned for its chassis design and track handling. It's a medieval design which works.
I don't blame you for choosing to swap the chassis out and make the body fit, I would do the same if I were fitting such an engine. A few people have had a go at big chassis changes. There has been attempts at putting an MR2 under the body, custom mid-engine designs. There have also been some big mods to the VW chassis cars too.
The bodywork definitely looks cool and turns heads, but it has its own shortcomings (primarily the door hinge design).
It might be worth identifying what you actually want from the car in the end. You could modify the ladder chassis to make a drag car (Majority of drag cars are built on ladder chassis). If you want a no frills track car, you wont have to worry about things like the head lights or interior. If you want a track car that also has a nice interior and nice bodywork that you might also take out on the road, you will need to look at fabricating a custom chassis that fits the old body layout but does a better job of suspension and steering (possibly IVA too). Do you want a road worthy car in the end?
Its worth knowing how big of a job you have beforehand, as lots of these projects die when the effort is underestimated. It sounds like a really interesting and ambitious project, cant wait to see some pictures!
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Post by chameleon on May 14, 2020 13:38:29 GMT
You have again been a font of good knowledge, I have thrown a tape across the car and with a bit of cutting and adding I can put one of my old lo-cost frames into it and tack it onto the box frame of the car. I know its not as simple as it sounds but I am confident it will shoe horn in. That will allows me to build the car from the inside out. any body modification will be carbon fibred out. As I said it will work or it will be an ocean going WHOP's. I do not know if this website is capable of a blog so people can follow the sinking of the Titanic.
Regards
Steve
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Post by Peter on May 15, 2020 11:51:19 GMT
The "forum" can certainly handle anything you throw at it as it on ProBoards, as long as you have a VGY or Photobucket account it's easy to post pictures, lots please.
Attachments are limited on Proboards unless I pay for larger capacity every year but so far with a bit of editing I have managed to steer clear of that, (likewise 'no adds'. So if you need to post an attachment please reduce the size.
As I have a 1987 Mercedes Cosworth, (currently being sold)I know the potential of a Cosworth lump, Merc or Ford and to be honest it's more than I would trust to any home built chassis or running gear., my relatively heavy car will top 245Kph and 0-100in 6.7, so it will out drag a 911 and get a lot of unwanted attention from the Guardia Civil. The new owner was talking about removing the engine already and porting it, changing the cams etc, why? the bloody thing is already tuned and hairy and is unfinished after a new set of OEM chrome rings fitted.. Mans an idiot, I just wish I could cancel the deal and get it back to safety but no space and deposit long gone.
I too have a lot of one off builds under my (expanding) belt but I would not have built a SS as a 'performance car', it was always intended as a show car to turn heads. My own is definitely a 'show car' with lots of bling but with an underpinning of upgraded VW stuff and Wilwood stoppers.
There is of course exceptions to every rule and the SS is no exception, a SS bodied EV is the worlds quickest car, an electric drag car by True Cousins. Also Jason's V8 version is so hairy it is limited to Prescott.
Keep us posted and always feel free to run anything past the forum, there are a load of guys who haven't put in their two pence worth, yet, but I an sure they will in due course.
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Post by chameleon on May 15, 2020 12:36:52 GMT
Hello Peter
Nice to hear from you again and that you are keeping well and safe. When I start the build my intension is that it will be a show only car and as the Cosworth Turbo engine is like the SS a historic piece of equipment and it will enhance the project. I also hope that the build will motivate others who may have lost their way. I will start an independent blog to save this sites fees and people can enjoy being part of the adventure.
Regards
Steve (Ellesmere Port)
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Post by Peter on May 16, 2020 11:58:59 GMT
Don't worry about the fees, it's paid for by banner adds, (that no one reads). as long as one stay withing the limits such as image size there is no limit on the amount of stuff one can post. some posts are blogs in their own right they are so big. Mine tends to ramble a bit at the moment as nothing going on wit the SS as my daily ride is undergoing a front end repair following the 'the bit of a prang' but very frustrating as I have all the bits but can't get to it 40 minuets down the road.
Please don't take my remarks as negative, I tend to come over that way sometimes, problem with ASD but that's another story. Half a century of motor trade and a lot of projects have passed my way, (you wouldn't believe the weird stuff I saw at MoD 'special projects' in the late 80s, best one was the Scorpion light recci and attack vehicle. Also an 8 wheel skid steer two man recci APC,) But on here and the Nova forum with dozens of them disappearing into the 'good idea, no idea', box. I could list them but the ones that HAVE worked and been on the road, only to be mothballed, are a Lacia Beta mid engine on a VW floor pan with clam-shell rear,, Chaz's SS with sierra axle and inboard brakes, Jason's Rover V8 and a couple of others but a couple of Lotus chassis/SS bodies, a MGF engine conversions or two, a SS body OVER a MGF, a Rover V6 into a SS/VW on an adapter with a removable rear end and the TEAC project all died.
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Post by chameleon on May 17, 2020 15:10:52 GMT
High Peter The question is not the number who have tried and failed but why they failed. Between this site and the Dutton Owners site with tails of Nova's and Eagles whose owner considered them pigs in respect of visibility, not enough head room and on and on and on. This is my last comment on both sites, but I will end with this:- I am now the owner of a beautifully design car bought with pocket money. I have an engine and transmission train of one on the greatest engines ever built in the Cosworth. I have a full set of very large Toyo RRR types, a rack of steel pipe with rolls of carbon fibre and finally a full size steel bench and a packet of chalk. Other car bits limit our mind and design, it may take me 3 months, a year 5 years to build it but it will be built. Failure comes from losing the path of the journey because it is the journey in building perfection not showing or driving it that is why I do it. I wish you and this site well. Regards Steve.
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Graham Wood
E.O.C. Chairman
Webmaster
User name = RAM
Posts: 536
Location, Town please: Southport, U.K.
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Post by Graham Wood on May 17, 2020 18:02:45 GMT
If you want a car that is unstable, and even more so in the wet with extra large tyres that will have virtually no weight on them at the back, ( less p.s.i. / sq. inch than designed for ) . and excessive power then we await the news reports, "Driver loses rear end control ( tyres too big for weight )leading to death of 15 people at bus stop", then proceed.
We have all warned you.
Good luck.
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Post by Mark on May 18, 2020 9:34:26 GMT
Hi Steve
I read in your last post that it will be your last one on this site, made me sad as I was looking forward to seeing your build progress on what is a very interesting and challenging project. The forum has lately got a little negative, I think the lockdown is getting to us all.
It would be great if you could start a new thread showing your build.
It’s difficult to know where people are at as far as talents, skills and confidence with these projects so if any of us misinterpreted any of your questions it is most likely not intentional. I for instance did not know you had already got you tyres sorted and thus size of wheels also.
With enough ingenuity and perseverance most things are possible with car builds and we all enjoy building, improving, modding our cars to one degree or another and seeing others do the same so please do stick with us.
Best regards
Mark
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Post by Peter on May 18, 2020 11:34:52 GMT
I for one do not intend for you to leave the forum but if you can't take the heat, leave the kitchen. ALL the advise that has been freely given so far on your project is from highly experienced SS owners, drivers and builders and arguing against proven engineering practice and experience does not make for confidence in the outcome. Most of us have decades of experience and many diverse engineering skills and qualifications (that we don't shout about on here), If we say something is a bad idea it is based on just that, nothing personal and much as we would love to see an updated SS with a more modern drive train we know how it will end so please, take some sound advice, save a lot of time and cash and I would suggest cutting back to more sustainable effort or we can guarantee seeing it on Ebay in time to come as another unfinished project which is against the ethic of this forum which is to see as many of these rare cars on the road as possible, not in bits for ever or scrapped. I myself would love to build a SS bodied car BUT it would be on a custom chassis, mid transverse engine (like bushboy's Nove with a Mazda V6 that we KNOW works), Citroen suspension, alloy chassis, etc, etc, stuff that has been tried and proven to work, if not on a SS body then on a similar car. Just time, cash and to be honest, age, means it will never happen.
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Graham Wood
E.O.C. Chairman
Webmaster
User name = RAM
Posts: 536
Location, Town please: Southport, U.K.
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Post by Graham Wood on May 19, 2020 18:51:12 GMT
This is not a reply to Chameleon. But more experiences on front and rear engined cars.
1 ) First build was a Red Nova, V.W. rear 1600 "Variant" rear engine without the vertical black cooling, but fan on back of engine, and a higher compression engine, and twin webers, jetted on a dyno. NO weight on the front and added paving slabs in front for added weight, cos **lethal** in the wet
( **IF you treat it as a car made by major car manufactures, tested, developed, refined constantly, and millions invested before car hits the road - sports car.** )
2 ) Built SS ( Latest body ) Ford 2.0L front engined, twin DCOE40's. Good weight on front, and NO weight on rear, hence sticking to 14 inch wheels. Could be ** Lethal** in the wet, but good for doing 180 degree instant ( slow moving ) turns by just turn wheel and jab the Loud pedal. Not something you want to do when cornering.
3 )Bought Red Eagle SS ex demo from Rob Buds Eagle cars firm -2.0 L front ford engine. ( Was an agent also )Again, even bigger tyres,( ** ) but had to send it back for repair, as it failed M.O.T. on rear suspension bracketary reinforcing which was none existent. So development of rear suspension on eagle cars was none existent, or not worth the expence on low margin, low production numbered kit cars.
4) Semi-Built a White Kit Porch 911 on special ladder frame chassis, but never got to drive it -- sold as unfinished ( had too many cars and one had to go ) but would still be too light on the front end.
5) Built White Eagle RV. front ford 2.0L with white soft top. And automatic - never had to slip the clutch to get over rocks or ramps. Just press the pedal till it moves forward -- Was great, BUT - Exceptionally Lethal ( ** ) with larger diameter wheels.
6) Have Ferrari 355 ( Mr2 mid engined Turbo 2.0 L )half built. Now THAT'S how a kit car should be, and look forward to beating every SS and RV round a track.
7) Have 2 Lincoln Mk IV's 2.5 ton massive cars, which if you try to drive fast could also be lethal.
some cars are at - - - - will add later.
So just some info ( important ) for those embarking on thinking any eagle has perfect handling.
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Graham Wood
E.O.C. Chairman
Webmaster
User name = RAM
Posts: 536
Location, Town please: Southport, U.K.
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Post by Graham Wood on May 19, 2020 20:04:18 GMT
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Post by scooby on May 23, 2020 12:49:41 GMT
It seems pretty clear to me that Steve knows exactly what he's taking on. He also seems to have the necessary skills and experience to see it through. And he absolutely knows it'll be a trigger-happy car and will therefore undoubtedly drive it with the respect it requires.
The warnings being given to him are also obviously fair enough, but that is what they are - warnings, advice, borne of experience, given in good faith, something for him to 'consider'. I think it's equally clear that he has considered them, and also appreciates the reasons they've been given.
He's made his decision.
There are plenty of YouTube clips of powerful rear-wheel-drive cars such as Cobra replicas being driven by folk who really don't know what they are doing; more than a few are seen ending up in a ditch having simply been 'floored' from a standstill on a straight bludy road. That ain't the car's fault; it's just what these cars will do when they lose traction and the driver doesn't know how to correct it. The options are pretty clear I think; either skill yourself to handle the crazy unrestrained behaviour of these vehicles, or else sell them on to someone who already has the skills. Or, possibly, just drive them with a light foot.
As Mark says, it'll be a real real shame if Steve doesn't either keep a thread going on here (ideally, 'cos it is an Eagle after all) or else lets us know if he sets up an alternative site where we can follow his progress - it sounds like bludy gripping project (unlike what his rear tyres will be, fnurrr fnurrr...)
Don't go, Steve :-)
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