Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2016 21:01:10 GMT
Hi all first post (hopefully not my last). okay so ive picked up an ss, well a rolling chassis at least. i saw it and instantly thought i have to have this and rebuild it. ill be honest i didnt do any research on this before i bought it and had never even heard of an eagle ss. im looking for some tips on my build and links to build manuals etc and im not 100% sure of the model either i think its a mk 3 ss but i could be wrong. id love to put a v6 or v8 engine in if thats even possible given the not so large engine bay. the ss did come with a q plate but i have no papers. i know this is no overnight project and not a cheap one but its hopefully something i will one day complete to an extremely high standard. ive attached a few photos. she looks very rough but still an awesome looking car thats not me in the photo as you can see someone got a bit crazy with the jigsaw around the headlights lol p.s. how many ss are around these days as ive seen different numbers in different places. thanks
|
|
|
Post by trike on Sept 2, 2016 18:21:52 GMT
Bodywork looks sound,V8 can be done, but not recommended
|
|
|
Post by Peter on Sept 3, 2016 16:32:40 GMT
Hi stiv,
Well done on the SS I hope it becomes a stunning car. it looks like it's in a workshop, that's always a good start.
I don't see a number plate which worries me as it is obviously a Ford based car, so unless you have the V5c that means it will need a SVA.
As it may have different doors to the body it would be hard to say for sure if it is a MkI or a MkIII as they both have the same body but the doors are MkI, lacking the extra flange in the top front corner for the top glass mounting. the MkI had the side windows fixed on the front edge only with a pop out catch at the bottom rear. The bonnet is a latter one though with the muti bumps as opposed to the flat 'box' of the early ones. The roll bar/belt fixing is also MkI as it was an option on the MkII (the one with the 928 type nose) and dropped for the MkIII as it was built with stronger integral cage.
Shame about the headlights, case of 'big ideas, no bloody idea'. which is the demise of many a kit car. The OEM lights are a copy of the Porsche 928 pop ups and not everyone's cup of tea. Several flip up ones have been used as well as the Fiat V20 Coupe, which I prefer. Apart from that the body looks in good shape. Is there an engine, usually a Ford Pinto 2L? Good news is Poly-Creations in Belgium do NEW SSs and could be persuaded to make a pair of headlight pods and repair panels for the nose, headlights are std' 7", (mini etc).
The original had 'caravan' lights but there are many variations, mine are Cavalier MkIII and others like the 'Corvette' look with LED units. ya pays ya money etc.
If you are short a windscreen these are available from Pilkington to order at about £350.00 plus the usual shipping vat etc.
The average cost from that state to a decent finish would be from about £3K to £8K and up, I'm at about £12K and just about levelling off, thank heaven.
Seats are always a problem with only 17 1/2" across the floor pan, Bedford rascal are a perfect fit but not very stylish, I regret changing mine to sports ones but the new ones do look great.
As to numbers; there were about 50/50 made of VW and Ford Cortina MkIII/ IV based cars and a total of about 680, There is a register of known eagles and I'll be adding yours in a jif. as FSS61, please let me have as much info on it as possible including location.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2016 19:29:34 GMT
Peter, you say a Belgian company have the moulds and such? Do you know if they can provide doors and/or a new shell and if so what price they do them for? Also I don't think my SS is on the register, I have a reg if you'd like to add it?
Stiv, I'm also in the process of converting my SS to a v8, though have only got as far as refurbishing the chassis so far and having an engine on the floor. But if you have any questions I may be able to answer them, your car is definitely in better condition that when I picked mine up about a month back!
The easiest engine swap would be to source a pair of cortina v6 engine mounts and use these to bolt in an Essex or cologne v6. These engines will bolt up to the existing gearbox with a different bellhousing I believe. The cologne is the more interesting option and a 2.9 from a Sierra would be interesting, if you're willing to spend a bit more the cosworth v6 uses the cologne block and should bolt up and give near 300 horsepower. These engines will give you more power and a great exhaust note but are big heavy iron engines so handling will be compromised.
As Peter will no doubt agree here, the suspension definitely needs to be upgraded in order to handle a bigger engine. The biggest problem you'll likely face is getting enough weight over the rear end.
For the front suspension my current plan is to replace the cortina uprights with those from a mk2 granada, if I've done my research right these should bolt right up. This allows me to use the vented discs from a granada however the callipers are the same as a cortina so I plan to upgrade to a 4 piston wildwood powerlite callipers. For shocks I'm going to use gaz adjustable ones, springs are yet to be figured out as the granada uprights will lower the car but I'm unsure as to how much. Adjustable upper wishbones are available which are a must if you plan on lowering the car or improving the handling.
As for rear suspension your options are more limited, cortinas had an Atlas axle like later escorts and capris so disc conversions and limited slip differentials are available. With increased power from a v6/v8 both of these are probably a good idea. I'm unsure as to what I'm going to do yet however a granada or jaguar read end sounds appealing.
Burtons suggest using polyurethane bushes to improve the handling. There's a company called flo-flex on eBay that produces these very cheaply, and having fitted these to a different cortina based kit car I can say they're a massive pain to fit and definitely show their price. But at the end of the day they are polyurethane bushes and work well once fitted.
Hope this was of some help!
|
|
|
Post by Peter on Sept 3, 2016 20:03:21 GMT
A V8 is possible but highly NOT recommended. If you just want pissing rights then fine but if you actually want to DRIVE it other than in a straight line, no. Jason's is restricted to Prescott as it's too hairy on the road. I would say keep within the original design parameters, all be it with uprated suspension and brakes, and enjoy the drive.
|
|
|
Post by jamman on Sept 5, 2016 16:43:25 GMT
I agree entirely with Peter. I have no experience at all of the SS, but do build custom cars and fit big engines in cars that never had them. For example I have just installed a Jaguar V8 in a 1980's VW LT van, and am presently designing a 600 + hp Jaguar Supercharged V8 to go into a Jaguar XJ coupe we have just done a 2" roof chop on. Over the years I have lost count of how many conversions I have done. It is not just about physically getting the engine in place. It is about balance, centre of gravity, moment of balance and whether the chassis can actually take it. As well as the usual stuff like brakes and suspension and spring rates. A big one that gets people is cooling, and with modern ethanol based fuel it can make a tightly fitted engine all but unusable. From the pictures I have seen on this great forum I would strongly recommend that the standard chassis is not up to a V8 of any kind. It is not about horse power, but is all about torque. That chassis needs seriously sorting before being exposed to any V8 torque. But the biggest issue I see is that it is just too far forward. A lighter engined car would run rings round it. Balance is everything.... Excuse my ignorance of the SS but could it not be re-engineered to go in the back behind the seats on a transaxle? Now that would handle...
|
|
|
Post by Peter on Sept 7, 2016 8:56:59 GMT
The problem with a in-line mid engine would be length, just not enough forward of the rear axle line for it without seriously compromising seating space.. A transverse mid engine has been done a few times, the first I saw was in a clam shell rear SS with a Lancia Delta in it, on the VW chassis too.. very nice. I would love to see a Subaru 4x4 in an Eagle chassis SS.
|
|
|
Post by Peter on Oct 22, 2016 13:28:17 GMT
Well stiv and donjohnson, been a few weeks now so any progress or have you had second thoughts?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2016 10:26:55 GMT
Peter no luck, V8 is still firmly the plan. No progress so far, I'm a uni student so haven't even seen my car since the end of summer. I've started a little fibreglass work repairing the body, every single piece of the body seems to have some sort of damage. The chassis was ground down and painted in POR 15, started to rebuild the Rover V8 I had lying about, not aiming for huge power from it, its more to suit the character of the car. However you may have seen my other thread and realised I definitely was not impressed with the chassis. I'm torn on what to do with it now, the old chassis would need a lot of work before I would consider it safe with the V8. So the options are to improve the old chassis, add gusseting bracing ect, or to start a new and design a new chassis. I'm not a skilled fabricator however I the design side doesn't phase me, I'm doing a masters in mechanical engineering so I have access to industry CAD and FEA tools, even CFD if the body were to be modified. If i were to design a new chassis it would probably replicate the mid section of the original with added bracing through the gearbox tunnel, but either end would be redesigned to take two more modern subframes, I'm still looking at options here. The benefit of this is the FEA is accurate enough for me to be confident in its safety, and once a design is produced in CAD i could make it open source so any one who wants a nice bolt on upgrade for their eagle body could download my design and get it made at their local engineering firm. Polycreations I think produce new body shells so a brand new modern drive train Eagle could be produced from entirely new parts! This idea really excites me, the only reason haven't started a preliminary design is because I don't have my car to do measurements on! However being so knowledgeable Peter I wonder if you can hep here? As far as I understand the Eagle shells were the same from the Ford/Beetle based versions? If so I could probably find beetle measurements online and start designing the kid section of the chassis
|
|
|
Post by Peter on Dec 11, 2016 17:39:21 GMT
Don't forget Don, if you make a new chassis that definitely means a SVA, which is not only expensive but for a SS very hard to pass. If you have the V5 for it, leave it as standard.
Things have certainly changed since I got my nice scrolls saying I am a clever dick half a century ago but the basic rule still applies, K.I.S.S. if you don't I can absolutely guarantee based on 25 years of Eagle club membership and witness to a dozen such projects, that car will never see the road. A V8 isn't "in keeping with the car" a straight 4 is for the 1971 design, originally for the VW chassis and engine, (Nova to Cimbria to Eagle SS to Ford version). It is not and never will be a 'super car', I know the Rover V8 is light for a V8 but still heavier and a pig to fit in as it will need to be back a good foot to start with, plus apart from some serious chassis mods you will have to up everything behind it, gearbox, driveshaft, axle (Daimler is a nice conversion, narrower than the Jag version and been done) , much better brakes, etc, etc.
Not being a sour puss or trying to put you off but my advise and from the others on here is based on experience and a lot of technical know how.
|
|
|
Post by jamman on Dec 11, 2016 20:17:10 GMT
This is a great example of how the present legislation stops people from making their cars safer! It is nuts. But Peter is correct, if you design your own chassis, no matter how superior to the original it may be, you will need an IVA test. I wouldn't try to get through that. If you really do not like the chassis, and I do not blame you one bit, you need to find something else with a separate chassis that needs minimal or no modification and use that. Then it is legal. But of course your choices are limited in that area. If you really want to build your own then you would need to replicate the original one visually but use superior thickness steel and make a better job of it than Eagle did. I am sure you can get away with extra bracing and some triangulation in the name of safety, and at the end of the day no one could prove it was not done before all this anal SVA/IVA silliness was forced on us!
|
|
|
Post by jamman on Dec 11, 2016 20:18:21 GMT
As for the V8, I also agree with Peter. If you want a bit of performance, after making it strong enough why not go for a turbo 4 cylinder something?
|
|
|
Post by Peter on Feb 16, 2017 17:59:48 GMT
How is it going?
|
|
|
Post by Jason on May 20, 2018 15:32:18 GMT
Hello all . Just browsing through after a few years away from eagle ss's . Yes that was me that put a v8 in the front :-). I heard a mention that it would be too heavy . But believe it or not it was about the same weight as the pinto due to being mostly aluminium . And being the same weight and having all suspension and bushes upgraded made it no worse than original handling . In fact i found it more driveble . I have to add i dont know what top speed was as i never dared .
It started easy. It never ever overheated. It sounded nice. It had a good 0-60 It had a good 60-90
If i had another ss without an engine i would v8 it again . :-)
Anyway . Hi to Peter . Hope your ok buddy . Must come for another visit before this year is out . Will sort something :-)
|
|
|
Post by Peter on May 20, 2018 17:41:31 GMT
Hi Jason,
Pleased to hear the SS was OK, but sad you didn't hang on to it as it has disappeared from the roads. would have been nice to see it all done up and hairy.
Anytime you are in the area give me a call and we will have a drink, or three.
Peter
|
|
|
Post by Peter on Oct 8, 2020 12:15:14 GMT
Hello all . Just browsing through after a few years away from eagle ss's . Yes that was me that put a v8 in the front :-). I heard a mention that it would be too heavy . But believe it or not it was about the same weight as the pinto due to being mostly aluminium . And being the same weight and having all suspension and bushes upgraded made it no worse than original handling . In fact i found it more driveble . I have to add i dont know what top speed was as i never dared . It started easy. It never ever overheated. It sounded nice. It had a good 0-60 It had a good 60-90 If i had another ss without an engine i would v8 it again . :-) Anyway . Hi to Peter . Hope your ok buddy . Must come for another visit before this year is out . Will sort something :-) Still waiting Jason, getting thirsty.
|
|